Week 7 Questions–4th Hour
OK, this was not going to be the question for this week, but after reading all the responses, I think it is a necessary progression.
Our good buddy James says that faith without works is dead. But Paul writes a letter to the church in Ephesus that seems to oppose this view–or does it?
Here is what Paul has to say…
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So, what of it? Are Peter and James in disagreement on this issue? Is James saying that we need to do good works in order to reach Heaven? Is Paul saying that being saved has nothing to do with our works? What is going on here?
To get credit this week, you need to discuss what grace, faith and works have to do with one another and synthesize James and Paul or explain why they are contrdicting each other. Can the Word of God contradict itself???
I do not have a tie in question that relates grace and works to pollution or global warming, sorry.
Question #2
How much faster will Hydrogen gas diffuse throughout a room than Xenon gas?
26 comments Mr. Holt | Blogroll
I think that James and Peter would disagree on this issue becaue one is saying that faith without works is dead, or that in order to have real, or great faith you must have actions to show for it. On the other hand, Paul says that it is nothing to do with works, but rather a gift from God, therefore not one person can brag about their works. I do not think that James is saying that we need to do good works or we don’t go to Heaven, but that we should do good works to show that we truly desire Heaven and will work for it. I don’t think that Paul is saying works has nothing to do with going to Heaven, but that it is a gift from God, therefore we do not need to worry about who has done more or better.
What grace, faith, and works have to do with one another is that we recieve grace from God through our faith and good works. Without strong faith in God and works of goodness, we cannot recieve the grace of God that we seek from him. According to James, we must have faith in God, but it is also necessary to have works to go along with that faith. I think that James is presenting the idea that we must act on our faith in God in order to recieve his grace and ultimately live with him in heaven. On the other side of things, I do not believe that Paul is necessarily saying that we should not perform works; rather, I believe that he is saying that we should not boast of our good works. Paul presents his own idea of how that faith is the main factor by which we recieve God’s grace, but it is not the only factor. We must also perform good works, but we should not take excessive pride in them. We should not boast of them to others. Therefore, I think that Paul was trying to emphasize the fact that we must have strong faith to be with God in Heaven, but good works cannot be excluded. I think James was accentuating good works while Paul was accentuating strong faith, and so when you put two and two togther, you recieve the divine grace of God.
Paul is saying that our grace isn’t our doing and that God gave it to us and it isn’t a result of all the work we have done on earth, so no one can brag about how much work they have done and how much grace that they have. Peter and James are in a disagreement in this issue because Paul is saying that we haven’t earned our grace and that God has given it to us, but James is saying that we don’t get faith and grace by sitting around all day. James is telling us that in order to receive faith and grace that we need to go out and do the works that God put us on this earth to do. I don’t think that James is telling us that we have to do good works in order to get to Heaven, although we should be doing God’s work anyways. Yes, I do believe Paul is saying that being saved has nothing to do with our works because God has given us the grace we need to get to Heaven so there would be no point in doing the works of God on earth. No, I don’t think the Word of God can contradict itself because it’s God’s Word and God can’t contradict himself. These two statements by James and Paul are contradicting themselves because they were said by James and Paul, not God.
1: Hmmm… Everything was good on the blogs until this Paul character intruded. Well it is evident of both of their responses. James clearly thinks that you have to earn heaven through works, and Paul feels that just believing will save your soul. Grace is more or less when you are guarded by the holy spirit. It does not equate to automatic salvation. It is a good thing, but it does not ensure heaven according to my definition. Paul is saying that our faith has given us a little favor in god’s eyes. But, if we have faith, and we don’t do anything good, then is it really faith? If you truly believe, you will go out and prove it. Thats like owning a guitar and then assuming you will get awards and paid millions of dollars. No. You have to use what you believe in and do something with it. Yes, belief in god is a step, but it takes more than one step to get to the top floor.
#1. No, I don’t think that the Word of God is contradicting itself because Paul goes on to say in the next verse of his letter that God has created us to do good deeds, and these good deeds show how much faith we truly have in God. If you do not do any good deeds, you really don’t have much faith in God, but if you do many good deeds, you have a lot of faith in God. Also, we are often told that actions speak louder than words, so we must let our actions show our faith.
Grace, faith, and works definitely have a lot to do with each other. As a result of God’s grace, we have a lot of faith in Him and everything that has been revealed to us by Him. This faith then shows through in all of the works that we do, and all of our good works are caused by our faith in God. So, God’s grace in our lives causes our good works
Yea James and Paul are disagreeing on this issue but I believe that if they ever met one another they would have come to an agreement. I still believe that we still need to do good deeds before we are allowed to enter into heaven. James is the man and he is right because you need to prove to others as well as to God that you love him and are willing to do anything for him, to do this you must preform good deeds to other people. James and Paul are disagreeing because they are writing to different people living in different places at different times. Faith and grace are different because faith is believing in something that cannot be proved and grace is unmerited divine assistance, this is completely different than faith.
Paul and James are not in disagreement with eachother, they are just tackling different aspects of the whole subject of grace. In order to go to heaven, we need to have grace. We receive grace through our actions and our faith. We are not saved by our actions alone. We are not also saved by our grace alone. You need to have both. You recieve grace from doing good actions so they are a result of eachother.
If you have a little bit of grace, work, and faith I believe you will still go to heaven. Because James says that we need good work to go to heave, but if I don’t have no faith in God will not reach heaven. James also says that with out faith work is dead. People today don’t see how all theses things will get you to heaven.
Grace is being thankful of what you have, thank God, and gives him grace. Have faith that is a God, and that all the things he said he would do. You also have to work to and up in heaven because it not something you just can buy, or walk into. I believe if you don’t these entire things you will reach heaven.
Matthew 6:1-3 states “Take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them;… when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms giving may be secret. And your father who sees in secret will repay you.” I believe that James and Paul are thinking very similarly, just they express them in different ways. James is right, faith without work is dead but Paul is telling us that when we do good works we should not boast about all the good we do, instead we have to do it in secret. If we do good works but in secret our Father will repay us.
All of us with faith must do good works in order to receive grace. All three of these are essential beliefs in our faith, without one of these we do not fulfill our duty.
Question 1:
Throughout the Bible, we find many passages to make us think. When we read what James wrote in the Bible, it made perfect sense. He basically told us that as long as act as God would like us to then we would be rewarded. The reward of course would be that of heaven. Now, the words that Paul wrote say we only have to believe in God, and it doesn’t matter how much you live out God’s works. These passage contradict each other tremendously, but the Bible is a confusing thing to read to begin with. The main reason for the contradiction would be that the two passages were written by two totally different people. Not everyone in the world can think the way the amazing Mr. Holt does, and it does cause some problems. Obviously, James and Paul do not share the same beliefs word for word. The basic concept is identical, but the way they carry out the concept is different. The concept of grace is defined as God’s life within us. We have been taught that in our very own Catholic School. Faith is never a sure thing. We must have blind faith in the sense that there is no sure way to get proof of the existence of God. We must completely trust that he actually exists without proof. Works is how we live out the existence of God. Faith, grace, and works are all intertwined. They all tell us how to completely trust in God. These passages from the Bible are not the direct word of God; they are the author’s interpretation of the direct word of God. Not every Bible passage will agree with each other. The Bible is also a collection of many books. It is very common to find contradicting passages. I do not think that James and Paul are in disagreement, because they both have the same concept. Overall, the basic message is to believe in God in order to obtain an eternal reward. Living out God’s works is an added bonus, and will not hurt your chances of getting into heaven.
#1
i feel that although it seems that paul and james and contradicting eachother that they are actaully on the same page. James is sayin that without work faith is pointless and essentially that is what paul is sayin. Yes by the grace of god we are able to have the option of faith, and we are suppose to do good deeds still, but good deeds alone wont get us into heaven especailly if we are boastfull. So basically James is saying that we need to have faith and show work for it, and Paul is saying that God has given us this faith, and we need to embrace it and prove this faith to him but not others. so although they seem contradicting after further analysis they are actually quite similiar.
I believe hat Paul opposes James letter. Because Paul is saying how it isn’t what you do or determine how strong your faith is, basically it was already done and set for you, like our way has bee paved already. The reason why Paul says that its not works, but instead its the gift of god is because of competition and how one person does better than another does that mean that, the person who has done more will be closer to god and better companions, than he who has done less? The difference between the two is that James believes that its our actions and what we do that gets us to heaven. Paul on the other hand believes that you don’t have to be saved to go to heaven there are plenty of people who aren’t saved that doesn’t mean that they don’t go to heaven. Jesus saved us when he died on the cross so that we could be saved; grace is a pleasing and attractive quality. In the terms of what were talking about that attractive quality would be what god wants and what is it that you have done that make god see that pleases him about you. James feels as if you need grace to enter heaven seeing that its your works that get you into heaven, or you r actions, unlike Paul who begs to differ that its you faith its about you having confidence and trust in god that everything will work or for the better, Paul says no to base things on your works or, actions.
#1
Faith and works can be looked at in two different ways, which explaions the contradictions between James and Paul. Works will not bring you to Heaven if you are just doing them for that reason alone. If while advancing in your faith you do works of God to grow, then yes, this is an advancement in faith and it will get you closer to God. The words do end up contradicting themselves in the Scripture, but the meaning of the two do not.
#2
Since Hydrogen is lighter it will diffuse faster.
First and foremost, I would like to point out that I think it is pretty ridiculous that this is a blog question in a Chemistry class and I do not understand why you would care at all about what we believe about the Word of God. But anyway, I do not think the Word of God contradicts itself at all. I think (know) that Paul and James are simply talking about two different kinds of “works” you perform. Paul is referring to the people that do ‘works’ to boast about it and show everyone how faithful they are to God when really they are just doing it for attention. He is saying that those works aren’t necessary because everyone is saved by the grace of God. James is talking about hte people that do ‘works’ truly to serve God, to become more like God, and to find eternal happiness. This is the kind of work that everyone should be striving to do. I think if Paul and James met they would agree with eachother’s philosophys, and I do not think that they contradict eachother at all.
Faith is “the confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.” I think that Paul is saying that you have to believe to be saved with no detail. Then James comes along and is saying the same thing but showing the people that it isn’t that easy. You have to do what God put us on the Earth to do in order to believe. Which to me means that to be saved you and have to believe and have proof that you do believe. Anyone can say that they believe but in the end can they show that they really do believe? This is why we should work in order to be saved. I also don’tthink they were arguing but that Paul was more a nice guy compared to James.
1.(sorry this is late, i clicked on the 4th hour link and nothing came up, so i thought maybe we didn’t have one since we were doing the testing and stuff!)
Paul and James would not be agreement on what they are saying. James would agree with Paul in the sense that faith needs to be there, but Paul would not agree with Jame’s point on works are most important and most neccessary. I truly believe that when Paul wrote this he was not trying to say that works are usless nonetheless, there needs to be more. A work is nothing without faith to back it up. He is just stating that more emphasis should be put on the fatih and not the works; works done should be done in secret without boasting and overexaggerating your doings. God’s word does not contradict itself, it just depends on how literally a person takes translation and also how a person feels about one of God’s laws or teacings.
I completely agree with Erika because the Bible often states that we should do good works, but we should do them in secret, so we get rewarded in heaven, rather than just getting rewarded here on earth. I think that this is exactly what these two are trying to say, but they are saying it in different ways.
I disagree with Shae because I do not believe that the words of Paul and James are entirely contracting each other as she says they do. I think that you have to look at Paul’s passage a little more deeply in order to fully understand it. When you do this, you can see that Paul is not necessarily saying that good works can just be disregarded; rather, he is simply putting a greater emphasis on the faith that one should have in God. On the contrary, James puts a greater emphasis on doing good works in order to get into Heaven. As a result, James is not disregarding having strong faith in God while Paul is not desregarding doing good works. They are only contradicting in the sense that they are placing more emphasis on differing aspects of how one can reach Heaven. When you look at both of these passages, it is clear that they are both trying get the point across that you will recieve God’s grace through faith “and” works.
I agree with Scott. He makes an excellent point in response to the blog question this week. James and Paul definitely had the same idea and message. They just had different approaches to achieving it.
i agree with lauren all the speech about god and james is getting a tad bit ridiculous lets focus on molar ratios and real live chemistry instaed of our opionins about god and faith. but i also agree with her because it does seem as is they are talkig about two different works
I agree with Ben this week. He does a great job explaing the contradiciton. Yes, the message being said and the actions being done are different, but the reasons for doing them are the same. If you do good things just to get to heaven, then you’re not doing it right. You have to do them just because you know its right.
I also agree with Lauren because these two people are talking about two different things, or ‘works.’
I agree with Lauren’s point about how there are two different kinds of works. I also agree with her when she says that they would agree with each other if they met, they would definately have this same idea about each one was saying in their teahcings.
I agree with Erika. She brings up a great point that we do not do work to get praise but rather to deepen our faith and do everything in the name of God.
I agree with Ben because sometimes it’s not just the words alone that someone has to look at, but if you can look into the deeper meaning you will understand. It is not just about what was said, but how someone said it and exactly what they mean by their words.
Posting wasnt working yesterday so i tried today and i hope it works!!!!
I agree with scott because we feel the same way on faith and on what James said in the Bible about it.